controlling

QUESTION

Irene,

 

I have spent countless hours trying to understand what happened to my friendship. I'm 63 and Donna is 67. We met at work and shared the same office for about ten years. Donna talks about herself and her problems constantly. Whenever anyone would come into the office, she would monopolize the conversation. Over the years she has told me every personal detail about her kids' drug problems, her kids' marriage problems, that her son that wanted to give up his parental rights to his ex-wife, about her mother's problems, and about her husband's medical problems (he's been quite ill for the past year). I could write a book.

 

Before I retired more than ten years ago, my husband and I purchased a 100-acre parcel bordering her and her husband's property. We built a house, business and barns. Donna and her husband are equestrians but only have 2 acres for their horses. After listening to her talk about her horses, riding, and horse camping for many years, I purchased a horse. For the past 12 years, Donna, her husband, and I have been trail riding on our property together at least twice a week. Donna and I also belong to ladies' riding group and ride together at least 4-5 hours every Tuesday.

 

In June, James and Donna went to visit their son in Lexington. When they returned, they talked about how their son and daughter-in-law couldn't wait for them to leave after the visit. I said, "It would be better if you lived closer and you wouldn't have such long visits." They insisted they weren't ready. During the summer, we continued to ride and they never talked about moving. She did drop comments like "I won't be planting my greenhouse next year" and "James won't be getting wood" and "We won't be able to keep the horses." I assumed James was very ill or maybe she was. Although I was worried about them, I didn't want to ask.

 

Just before they went back for another trip, Donna called and said they had been looking for property, had found a lot on the internet, and would be moving so James could be near their son. I said, "I understand, but I will sure miss you." They left to purchase the property and I went on a weeklong camping trip with several of the gals that ride together.

 

Our rides with Donna and her husband generally lasted about two hours with her talking all the time. James and I can't get a word in edgewise. The rides are always at 1:00 or 1:30PM. If I say I would like to go at 2:30, she says, "No, we need to go earlier." It's her way or the highway.

 

When she called to ride after they returned, she started talking about the nice property they bought, a neighbor she couldn't wait to meet, etc. She went on to say how it was up to her to make sure that all the paperwork was in order. She said they were waiting for a call from the title company and would be going back to Lexington to sign papers. She said, "I caught a huge error when we purchased the lot in June and it fell through."

 

Then I realized she had purchased property in June and hadn't told me until now. I asked why. She said in a very controlling rude voice, "That is my personal business I thought you would be upset". I literally gasped. I said, "I'll see you on the ride" and hung up but didn't go that day and I haven't been on a ride with them since then. I was almost hysterical. My husband said to forget it, but he is a man and doesn't understand.

 

She hasn't called and I haven't either. I see her every Tuesday to ride with the girls. The first time I saw her after the phone call, she came over to my trailer to give me an apple for my horse. I could tell by her face she was embarrassed and didn't know what to say. I thanked her and that was it. I didn't talk to her on the ride. I just can't get past her hiding the fact all summer that they were moving.

 

The worst part of this is I do miss her. Twenty years of friendship is a long time. Also, it is very uncomfortable on Tuesdays with the other gals. They know we aren't talking to each other. I am not friendless. For the past 8 years, I've been riding and camping with another couple and another lady. We go on week camp trips as a foursome. I have other close friends: my bridge partner, my walking partner, etc.)

 

I expect an apology for her rudeness, but that hasn't been forthcoming and I don't think it will be. I feel betrayed. What is your evaluation of this entire scenario of the end of a friendship?

Thank you,
Cara

 

ANSWER

Cara,

 

You sound pretty ambivalent about your friendship. You enjoyed working, riding, and being with Donna enough to sustain a twenty-year friendship but you also are saying now that you could barely tolerate her incessant chatter, rigidity, self-centeredness, and controlling nature.

 

It is definitely strange that Donna felt comfortable to share so many intimate details of her family's life with you but decided that telling you about her impending decision to move was too "personal." I'm also confused why you never asked your friend to explain the comments she made during the summer suggesting that there were going to be major changes taking place in her life. How could you just ignore her comments?

 

I think you are both having a very difficult time ending a long-term friendship that you both enjoyed. My guess is that Donna is upset about her husband's illness and their need to move, about all the changes that are taking place in her life, about her inability to control everything going on around her, and about moving away from you.

 

I think you are feeling a tremendous sense of loss as well that feels like a betrayal. To justify your feelings, you are remembering more negative than positive things about her. You would not have kept the friendship going for so long if it wasn't worth its weight in gold. You have other friends but this was a special friendship that was life changing in terms of all you shared together and because it introduced you to the equestrian world that you now enjoy so much.

 

Don't stand on ceremony waiting for an apology. Allow your friend to have made a mistake in not being explicit. She's leaving and your relationship will be changing as a result. Instead of ending it on an ill note, tell her that you really will miss her and that you hope you can still stay in touch. Not only will this type of reconciliation allow you to feel more comfortable with your friends who are remaining, it will allow you to feel more comfortable about yourself.

 

I hope this is helpful.

Best,
Irene

QUESTION:

Dear Dr. Levine,

 

I've had a roller coaster relationship with my BF for the past eight years. We both hit it off when our oldest kids (we have 7 in total) met in first grade. What began as a "play date" with children grew into a friendship that involved couples weekends, family trips, dinners out, BBQ's, etc. Basically we were inseparable.

 

The friendship has not been without emotional turmoil, however. My BF is the most incredible woman when she is "on". However, she is moody, explosive, jealous and extremely insecure. She has had very few women friendships in her life. I have always been extremely social with lots of friends but only a handful of close ones.

 

Because I have no family living nearby (other than my immediate family), I deeply value my close friends and put a lot of effort into maintaining those relationships. My BF was constantly jealous and bitter about whomever else I would chose to spend time. To avoid her wrath, I began including her in every plan or not going out as often for coffee or lunch with others. She was never there for me if I was conflicted, concerned or stressed about family, health, or school, etc. I realized those areas of my life were simply not important to her.

 

I realized that my BF controlled our friendship and decided when she wanted to share information. When she became moody or angry, she just slipped into silence and would need me to pull her out of it with attention. I still forged forward because when she was "on," she was really great. It was usually fun to be with my BF.

 

Recently she and her husband decided to move their family away. I only learned about their big decision when the sign went up in front of their home, at the same time when random neighbors and associates found out. Their home sold within a month and they had made offers on homes in other communities. I had learned all this from other friends she spoke to about four times a year.

 

We live in a small community; gossip and speculation were rampant. Because my BF and her husband did not share much with the outside world, people were constantly asking my family and me about their decision to move and about the whereabouts. They assumed that her BF would know. I felt so embarrassed, stunned and hurt that I had no answers. Often I would learn more from casual comments in the grocery store than my own friend had bothered to share with me.

 

The friendship had always been one-sided; I always forgave her. This time I think there was just too much water under the bridge-too much hurt. After she sold her house, she never spoke to me again. Our husbands stopped golfing and watching football games; our kids stopped texting and arranging playtime. I just sat, feeling hurt as her family packed up and moved away. I never said goodbye.

 

It has been three months and I still think of her every day. I have gone under the radar and kept to myself about what I truly feel about what transpired. I know my reality and sleep soundly at night knowing in my heart that I couldn't have done anything different. But I miss her. I miss the "fun" and laughing at silly stuff and relaxing over drinks and dinner with our husbands.

 

How much longer do I have to feel like I am getting over a bad break-up? There was truly more bad than good in this friendship but it still feels like such a loss. Advice???

Signed,
Heart-Broken

 

ANSWER:

Dear Heart-Broken,

 

I'm so sorry for your loss. Whatever your friend's faults, she was still your BF. You enjoyed the time you spent with her and her family and made sacrifices to maintain the friendship. Yes, she was always a private person---but not telling you about moving is over the top. There must be some secret she is hiding that she isn't comfortable telling you. I can only speculate: perhaps, the couple is separating, or having financial or employment problems. Whatever the details, she simply doesn't feel comfortable sharing the information with you or anyone else. That's her loss because I'm sure you would be supportive of her situation.

 

As you describe it, your BF was a moody, jealous, self-centered and possessive woman and you felt ambivalent about the relationship. I give you credit for being flexible enough to adapt to her idiosyncrasies but you really deserve more. Use her move as an opportunity to make other friends. You have nothing to feel embarrassed about. If anyone asks what happened, be frank; you have no idea about the circumstances surrounding their move.

 

I know it's particularly difficult for you because you lost what felt like part of your family. They may contact you again when the dust has settled but you need to move forward with your own life and your friendships. This is also a teachable moment for your kids because they will learn that not all friendships last forever.

 

Best,
Irene

 

Have a question about female friendhips?

Ask The Friendship Doctor: Irene@TheFriendshipBlog.com

 

 

 

QUESTION

Dear Irene,

My friend, Delia, who started out as my babysitter four years ago has been a wonderful blessing for me. Although she is 25 and I am 36, we have children two days apart in age (both 5 1/2). She is a stay at home super mom and I am single working mom.

Delia encouraged me to start college again so I take two classes on Wednesday night; on that night, my daughter spends the night with her and her family. In addition, she is my English tutor and takes my daughter to a lot of events that I can’t attend due to work.

In the past six years, I've had one real relationship and she did not approve. Also, I moved and my child was not in the same school district as hers and she didn’t approve of that district. I transferred my daughter back to our original school and drive across town every day. (I did that because she wore me down about the test scores for the school district I moved to.) She said my daughter wouldn't get to do hardly anything if she weren't with her. I also started back to church about a year and half ago and she became very upset about that as well.

Last but not least, I recently become engaged and although I've had a ten-year friendship with my fiancé, we realized we were in love about 7 months ago she is extremely upset about this. Without writing unnecessary details, I will say he is incarcerated at a minimum-level "golf course" facility and I decided to take my daughter to see him. I took her because he had never seen her before, even though they have spoken weekly for over a year. The visit was wonderful and my daughter was excited to go back as soon as possible to play.

This decision I've made has come at a price. Now she will not talk to me. I called her 3 or 4 times over the weekend and she just called this morning to say I didn’t have to pick her daughter up for school; that she would take her. Oh, also my family and other friends are behind me 100% regarding my relationship and my decision to take my daughter last weekend.

I am a friend come rain or shine, no matter the decision, and I don't make any of my friends feel like our friendship could fold at any minute or for any wrong move. If it is a wrong move, so be it,
I'm not here to judge, I'm here to support even if it is a mistake.  What should I do?

RESPONSE

Dear Amy:

Although you are considerably older than your friend, it sounds like she has been a mentor and reliable source of support to you and your daughter, and that you value her friendship.

Her being judgmental and controlling is nothing new. She has consistently expressed her opinions, rather strongly, about how you should lead your life: She didn’t like your former boyfriend; she didn’t approve of your changing school districts; and she didn’t agree with your decision to become involved with your church.

Now Delia obviously has very strong feelings about your relationship with your fiancé and your decision to expose your daughter to him. Just like you listened to her concerns about other issues and hopefully decided for yourself, you need to ask her why she feels this way about your fiancé. Perhaps, some of the reasons for her disapproval are legitimate and would lead you to rethink your decision. Although your friend does sounds very controlling, she may be worried about you and your daughter.

My thinking: Although you haven’t provided details (and the devil is often in the details), if your daughter is only 5 ½, as a single mom, you need to be extremely cautious about the people and situations to which you expose her. For example, if your fiancé is incarcerated for child molestation or the like, that obviously should be a deal-killer.

Some people feel just the way you do—that friends shouldn’t judge each other. Other people feel just as strongly that while they shouldn’t judge a friend, per se, they should be honest and tell her when she is doing something potentially risky or hurtful.

Since you have a history with this friend, perhaps you could talk this specific situation through. After listening to her, you may change your mind about your fiancé or the friendship.

Best,
Irene

QUESTION:

Dear Irene,

About a year and a half ago I broke up with a friend and I'm still not over it. I was hoping you could offer some insight. I’ve known this girl since 6th grade when she stopped speaking to me over some boy. We became friends again in 7th grade but she always needed a new best friend. She moved out of state in 8th grade and made me promise to go to college in her state.

Well, I did move there and got married (she got married too). The four of us would hang out some but she did the same things as she did in elementary school: she'd just stop calling or she would ask for rides or a babysitter when she needed something and we'd be there to help. But if we needed something she'd just whine and complain. We moved a couple times within the same city and she was always negative about were we lived, saying we lived in a bad neighborhood (when we didn't and we had a brand new house).

Finally my husband and I stopped speaking to them because we felt like we were being used. About 3 years later, I started feeling guilty so I called her to see how she was and she was happy to hear from me. We started hanging out again and things seemed all right. I actually helped her to get a job at the same place where I worked with my husband.

My husband and I started to have problems and were considering a divorce. It turns out that she HATED my husband. She kept encouraging me to divorce him and spread rumors about him at work. Apparently she was talking about me, too, and spreading our personal problems to everyone we worked with. It made work very uncomfortable but she denied saying anything. She told me I shouldn't have told her any of my problems if I didn't want them to be known!

I ended up getting my own place and separating from my husband. I was very depressed and could hardly get out of bed. She was always mad at me for not “snapping out of it”. I eventually went to a doctor and got on anti-depressants and starting seeing a therapist, but she kept talking about me, saying that the anti-depressants weren’t good for me. She told me that I needed to convert to her religion to find happiness and get over the depression.

I agreed to go to church with her a few times but after a couple months decided it wasn't the place for me. When I began studying with a Rabbi she began saying horrible things about Jewish people and constantly told me how “sorry” she was that I was going to hell. I ended up moving out of state for a new job and to start a new life: I had planned to remain friends with her and talk to her from out of state.

Once I moved, she started sending me bible tracts and told me that Hebrew was a “bad language” to learn. Then I received an email with childish insults and name calling from both her and her husband. I just couldn't take it anymore and didn't want to fight, or call names so I just stop talking to her altogether. I deleted all the emails I got from her without ever reading them and changed my phone number.  Now she has befriended my mother on Facebook and constantly leaves my mom messages about how great she is. I feel like she's crossed the line by trying to be friends with my mom or she's displaying some passive aggressive behavior.

I feel a lot of guilt over this and feel like it is immature for me to stop being friends with someone. My life has improved A LOT since I stopped being friends with her and my self-esteem has climbed. Should I feel guilty over this? I feel like it is something that some middle school girls would do but I never imagined adults would stop speaking like this. Should I say something to her about being Facebook friends with my mom? Or do I just let this go?

Signed,
Unable to Let Go

ANSWER:

Dear Unable to Let Go,

I hope that by posting your dilemma on this blog and reading it in black-and-white, it helps clarify your answer to the question you posed: Should I just let this go? When other women write about their friendship dilemmas, the answers are often in shades of gray. This one isn’t.

It sounds like your ex-friend has been possessive, self-centered, negative and controlling from the time she was an adolescent and she still hasn’t outgrown it. While you tolerated her for some time, you and your husband appropriately decided to end the relationship. The same attitudes and behaviors you overlooked in middle school were less acceptable when you saw them appear in an adult.

Like most women, you tried to put a positive spin on your friendship when you attempted to renew it three years later. Then your friend began to encourage you to leave your husband, spread rumors about you and your husband to your colleagues, and betrayed confidences about you to people at work. I can’t help but think that she was alienating you from him and your co-workers so she could have you for herself again. Then she tried to dictate your religious beliefs and showed little sensitivity to or understanding of your values or emotions. Besides, people generally don’t “snap out” of a clinical depression.

Don’t you remember you changed your phone number to avoid contact wit her and even deleted her emails? Why would you ever feel guilty for cutting off a friendship like this one? You deserve so much better.

Why would you want to re-friend someone who has been such a negative influence? Yes, she crossed the line by trying to befriend your mom and there is no point in initiating contact with her over this. However, you should let your mother know how nasty your friend has been to you so she doesn’t get sucked in. The rules of friendship on Facebook are often pretty murky but I would think your mother wouldn’t want to maintain a relationship with your ex-friend if she knew how much pain she had caused you.

Clearly, you are feeling happier and more self-confident since you broke off with her. Yet you are guilty and ashamed about separating from a long-time friend. You seem to be tied to they myth that “best friends are forever” but generally, this isn’t the case. Being able to let go, in this situation, wouldn’t be immature; in fact, it would be a sign of your maturity. You need to let go and move on. This woman sounds like a toxic friend.

Hope this is helpful.

My best,
Irene

QUESTION:

Dear Irene:

My "best" friend and I have been friends since last year. Sometimes I feel like I love her; other times, she’s my worst enemy. She comes from a controlling and abusive family and I was always there for her to get through it.

I just turned 18, and I realize more and more that she’s doing the same things to me that her mom did to her. I’ve watched her lie and manipulate older men and she’s only 17. She brought me into these situations to help her be more convincing. It made me feel guilty but I couldn’t do anything about it. I’ve lost almost all of my old friends because of her telling me they talk bad about me behind my back. She’s changed me into becoming more promiscuous and she gets me to meet new guys to "make me feel more confident." She says I can’t do it on my own because I’m too shy. Then she finds something bad about them to make me from stop talking to them if I start spending more time with one of them and not her.

She even said something about my parents not caring about me. She "jokingly" calls me stupid and puts me down. Other times, she tries to make me feel better about myself. She found me a job with her but if I do something wrong, she makes me feel like a bad friend because she throws it in my face about how she got me the job and all the other great things she’s done for me.

I wish I had an escape but I’m still in high school and I happen to live a street away from her and she knows almost everything about me, even that I may have an STD because of a guy she hooked me up with.

Signed,
Heather

ANSWER

Dear Heather:

As a woman and as a mom, my heart goes out to you because it sounds like you are in a particularly painful situation for someone your age. Even if you desperately want to, it’s hard to escape from a girlfriend who lives near you, goes to school with you, has some of the same friends as you, and works with you.

It’s great that you have insight and recognize that this relationship is toxic. Your friend has you hooked on the excitement she provides but the costs are too great. She undermines your self-confidence---and tries to manipulate and control you.

You were brave to tell me about your worries and that you want to make positive changes. Although it will be difficult, you need to find a way to back off from this friendship. If you don't feel comfortable talking to one of your parents, I suggest that you talk to another trusted adult, perhaps a counselor at your high school, who can provide support to help you find a way to end this risky relationship. Also, make an appointment with a physician so you can reassure yourself about your health and can cross an STD off your worry list.

 

My best,
Irene